Real Small Business, Real Big Ideas - Carrie D. Mader Project Part 3

[thejenn]

Full Text: http://www.searchengineguide.com/laycock/008215.html

A Snippet:

In parts one and two of this series, I gave readers some background on upscale jewelry designer Carrie D Mader and the challenges being faced by both her and our team of volunteer marketing consultants. Today we'll be looking at one of the biggest obstacles to face small business owners, delving into plans for updating and upgrading Carrie's web site content and exploring the crashing reality that often comes with these types of projects.

[camillaaargh!]

Great to see you back with another really interesting project, i'm really enjoying it so far! The decision to expand the timeline sounds sensible, i'm certainly more interested in seeing the project completed rather than seeing it abandoned in favour of fitting in tons of companies in the time.
Looking forward to Part 4.

[jmhonline]

I just wanted to set the record straight about Jennifer's article posted in this thead. I am really disappointed that Jennifer has chosen to act in this manner. I thought she was better than that. She doesn't mention me by name but conveniently puts in a statement that clearly identifies me since most people in the miva merchant community would know that it was me. Not only that, but it is clear from the introduction section in this forum that it is me. I could have written another article about how Miva Merchant users suffer from outside "experts" who don't know miva merchant, but I thought twice since everything discovered was in personal conversations via email. So I was extremely surprised and shocked to see jennifer's inflammatory statements.

She conveniently left out the evidence that I shared with her where Bruce Clay (him or his company) has told someone that I am the best for the Miva Merchant shopping cart, and he/they can't help.

I could rebut many of her statements that are factually untrue (both in our emails and in this article) point by point, but I won't waste my time for all that. I'll just say that I spoke directly with Carrie's host and Clicktracks tech support, and they both confirmed what I had been saying. They did not understand Jennifer's thinking as well. I went to them because even I can be wrong from time to time, so I wanted to double check. All this to say that the primary reason for having me on the team was for optimizing miva merchant. Carrie is the one suffering!

As far as communication goes, I will maintain that Jennifer should share the blame and learn to look at herself. Of course she has friends that will tell her what she wants to hear, and I have people (clients seeing up to 300% increase in sales, etc) that will confirm my opinions as well. I am truely sad that she has decided to burn this bridge.

[Robert]

ADMIN NOTE: I originally pulled Jason's post above because I wanted to talk him via PM first. Jennifer didn't identify him in the article but Jason feels that people will know it's him and he should have a chance to state his position. As such, I'm abiding by his wishes and putting his post back up.

For everyone reading, we don't allow flame wars or personal attacks and I know Jason and Jennifer are both professionals so we don't have to worry about that from them.

But, professional differences can result in rather contentious discussions so please keep that in mind.

[thejenn]

Jason, I had no interest in getting into a public spat about who said what or who did what, but since you’ve decided to out yourself (despite my conscious decision to not name you in the article) I cannot allow your post to stand without any type of rebuttal.

So, I’ll simply lay out a few points that didn’t get mentioned in the article and be done with it. Our readers can come to their own conclusions.

1.) I wrote and rewrote that section of the article multiple times in order to make sure that I was not naming you, nor outing you and to also make sure that the focus of the section was on the ability to communicate well with a client and not on the skill set or lack thereof from a vendor. I did this purposely so as not to slander a particular vendor and to make it clear to our readers that this *IS* a common problem for Small Business owners. Nearly every SBO that I’ve spoken with has run into this problem at some point in their lives. The inability to communicate well with the team is, IMO, sometimes a bigger issue than technical knowledge. I stand by that statement.

2.) Since you want to bring skill into it, I’ll simply state that on multiple instances, both Matt Bailey and myself tried to explain to you the exact problem that we were facing. You responded to a completely different problem and no amount of us going around in circles seemed to make it clear to you what we were talking about. This was wasting both Carrie’s and our time. The issue was very quickly resolved when we spoke with her current developer. To note, I have also spoken with the ClickTracks team (not tech support, but the actual developers) and they gave me an entirely different answer than what you shared with us.

3.) You’ve stated over and over again that Bruce Clay (or his company) has sent people your way. I spoke with one of Bruce Clay’s top staffers last week in San Jose. They had not heard of you and they said that while they occasionally tell someone “we hear so and so works on this,” that it is NOT an endorsement of someone’s qualifications. I’d be happy to email Bruce and ask for his input in this thread if you would like.

4.) Despite the problems that we ran into, you’ll note that when I emailed you to part ways on the topic, I went out of my way to make it clear that we were parting ways because of communications issues. A very common reason for business pairings to split. I also noted that I would honor the commitment that I made to give you a free week’s advertising in the Search Engine Guide newsletter in exchange for your willingness to help on the project.

5.) Nonetheless, you saw fit to take it upon yourself to email Carrie telling her that both myself and the team of volunteers that I have put together were unqualified for working on a site such as hers and then proceeded to solicit her business by citing Bruce Clay’s “recommendation”, linking her to a sales video of yours and basically telling her that she didn’t stand a chance of success if she continued to work with us.

I’m very sorry that you’ve chosen to deal with the issue this way after I made an intentional effort to shield you from any negative impact that would come from your being identified in this article series. As Robert has pointed out, sometimes people simply do not work well together. I had hoped that this was simply a case of miscommunication and did my best to part ways fairly and justly. Your actions since that parting took place have made it clear that the decision that I made was in fact, a good one.

[jmhonline]

Originally Posted by thejenn

Jason, I had no interest in getting into a public spat about who said what or who did what, but since you’ve decided to out yourself (despite my conscious decision to not name you in the article) I cannot allow your post to stand without any type of rebuttal.

I had no interest in outing myself or making our situation public. You clearly labeled me in your article and made it a who said what or who did what. I have already been contacted about it. Your denial doesn't change reality.

So, I’ll simply lay out a few points that didn’t get mentioned in the article and be done with it. Our readers can come to their own conclusions.

1.) I wrote and rewrote that section of the article multiple times in order to make sure that I was not naming you, nor outing you

yet, you still did whether you intended to do so or not. Your supposed rebuttal just reaffirms my problems with it.

and to also make sure that the focus of the section was on the ability to communicate well with a client and not on the skill set or lack thereof from a vendor. I did this purposely so as not to slander a particular vendor and to make it clear to our readers that this *IS* a common problem for Small Business owners. Nearly every SBO that I’ve spoken with has run into this problem at some point in their lives. The inability to communicate well with the team is, IMO, sometimes a bigger issue than technical knowledge. I stand by that statement.

I totally agree but that has nothing to do with misrepresenting the situation and slandering me. An issue with communication problems can also arise when the person asking the question either isn't clear or withholds pertinent information.

2.) Since you want to bring skill into it, I’ll simply state that on multiple instances, both Matt Bailey and myself tried to explain to you the exact problem that we were facing. You responded to a completely different problem and no amount of us going around in circles seemed to make it clear to you what we were talking about.

I reread my statements, and I don't see where I brought skill into the matter. Regardless, I'll just say your statements are not accurate.

To note, I have also spoken with the ClickTracks team (not tech support, but the actual developers) and they gave me an entirely different answer than what you shared with us.

I can only assume you asked them something entirely different or explained things more clearly. I presented your thoughts verbatim to someone in the tech support department who actually works with miva merchant stores, so I fail to see the significance of talking to a developer.

3.) You’ve stated over and over again that Bruce Clay (or his company) has sent people your way. I spoke with one of Bruce Clay’s top staffers last week in San Jose. They had not heard of you and they said that while they occasionally tell someone “we hear so and so works on this,” that it is NOT an endorsement of someone’s qualifications. I’d be happy to email Bruce and ask for his input in this thread if you would like.

So you talked to a staffer? And? Bruce Clay was a much larger company the last time I looked. What does "we hear so and so works on this" have anything whatsoever to do with this? This particular testimonial doesn't say that and you know it. So you are saying the person who relayed the information to me verbatim without me asking is a liar? Other than this particular testimonial , would you like me to paste multiple personal emails from people throughout the years stating Bruce Clay referred them to me? Would you like me to post my newsletter database records which include a bruce clay employee? Should I get phone records of a bruce clay staffer calling me to discuss possibilities of working together? Not sure why you are continually attacking me personally.

4.) Despite the problems that we ran into, you’ll note that when I emailed you to part ways on the topic, I went out of my way to make it clear that we were parting ways because of communications issues. A very common reason for business pairings to split. I also noted that I would honor the commitment that I made to give you a free week’s advertising in the Search Engine Guide newsletter in exchange for your willingness to help on the project.

This is exactly why I am so surprised and shocked at your conduct. I thought you were being completely unreasonable, but I chose to let it go as to not burn any bridges. You then turn around and do this without the advertising.

5.) Nonetheless, you saw fit to take it upon yourself to email Carrie telling her that both myself and the team of volunteers that I have put together were unqualified for working on a site such as hers and then proceeded to solicit her business by citing Bruce Clay’s “recommendation”, linking her to a sales video of yours and basically telling her that she didn’t stand a chance of success if she continued to work with us.

Please be honest. This is unbelievable. I told her that you decided that it was best that I no longer work on the project, and I did not solicit her business. I said she could email me to double check any recommendations. I gave her a warning that I give everyone that some people have come to me after three seo companies. I gave her that warning, period. This video is an unsolicited testimonial from somone who contacted Bruce Clay. Why you continue to attack my integrity is beyond me. I have no problem with Matt. Please keep him out of it.

I’m very sorry that you’ve chosen to deal with the issue this way after I made an intentional effort to shield you from any negative impact that would come from your being identified in this article series.

Negative impact was and is NOT an issue. Again, your assertions don't change the reality of the situation.

As Robert has pointed out, sometimes people simply do not work well together. I had hoped that this was simply a case of miscommunication and did my best to part ways fairly and justly. Your actions since that parting took place have made it clear that the decision that I made was in fact, a good one.

I responded to you unfairly attacking me. For myself, I still hold carrie's interests as the most important thing here.

[thejenn]

Again, your assertions don't change the reality of the situation.

I'll second that.

Jason, this is a he said/she said thing. You've presented your side, I've presented mine. Anyone reading this thread can draw their own conclusions.

[MattB]

Jason,

Seeing that my name has been brought up a couple of times in this matter, I'll jump in. However, I’ll ask you to please refrain from speaking on my behalf.

This was a matter that was discussed thoroughly by many people. It was not just decided by Jennifer, but by the many people involved in making this project happen. The decision to part ways was not taken lightly, nor was the decision to write about the experience.

I am sure, by now, that we all know your experience, as you have been very outspoken about your qualifications. This was a point of hesitancy on my part. I don’t usually think much of people who constantly use other people’s names to further their own, and who assign themselves the title of "expert". However, I made an exception in this case.

I won't argue any of your claims; I can see it would be pointless. I will, however, say that you did approach Carrie separately and stated, “I feel bad for you because I have seen potential clients go through up to three different seo companies who don't specialize in seo for miva merchant. “

You may have only asked her to email you for advice, but I’ll let the readers’ judge for themselves as to your intent. Your email to her was widely circulated as a confirmation of why you were asked to leave the project.

Suffice it to say, this matter was better left private. Your own aggrandized claims would be the only key for someone to figure out the connection. However, you chose to make it public. If you would like to continue to do so, I have no problem laying out why I agreed that you should be dismissed from the project, line by line.

If that is a path that you choose, then we can do this publicly. However, I recommend that you go back to Robert and ask him to remove this thread, nicely.

I will give you this bit of advice, though. In the future, you may want to start with the assumption that the other people that you are working with on a team have more experience and ability than you think.

[David Wallace]

I don't know, Jason. I think you should have left well enough alone. There is nothing wrong with a person writing about an experience in business, whether that be good or bad. I think Jennifer was most gracious to leave your name out of her example. She had every right to include it in the article as it is part of the overall experience.

Now your name has been revealed because you decided to defend yourself (even though you were never named by name in the article). IMO you should have done that in the private arena instead of airing your laundry in public.

The search engine marketing community is very tight niche and I can vouch that both Jennifer and Matt are very well respected. They are two of the most credible people in the industry. I am glad to know both of them and be able to call them my friends.

This is just my opinion but if I were you, I'd seriously request that this thread be removed. I believe that option is still available. Pick and choose your battles because I don't think this is one that is going to leave you looking good in the end.

[jmhonline]

Originally Posted by MattB

Jason,

Seeing that my name has been brought up a couple of times in this matter, I'll jump in. However, I’ll ask you to please refrain from speaking on my behalf.

Please explain further. I have not brought your name into this. Jen has, and I asked her not to do so. So I am curious as to why you are approaching me this way.

This was a matter that was discussed thoroughly by many people. It was not just decided by Jennifer, but by the many people involved in making this project happen. The decision to part ways was not taken lightly,
I don't take issue with the nor was the decision to write about the experience.

Parting ways is not the problem nor is writing about the experience. Maliciously attacking someone and stabbing them in the back after they volunteered to help out is another.

I am sure, by now, that we all know your experience, as you have been very outspoken about your qualifications. This was a point of hesitancy on my part. I don’t usually think much of people who constantly use other people’s names to further their own, and who assign themselves the title of "expert". However, I made an exception in this case.

Interesting. For myself, I have no problems with people who use testimonies and let others sing their praises. One wonders if I would have to make an issue of my qualifications if someone hadn't attacked them without merit.

I won't argue any of your claims; I can see it would be pointless. I will, however, say that you did approach Carrie separately and stated, “I feel bad for you because I have seen potential clients go through up to three different seo companies who don't specialize in seo for miva merchant. “

Yes, that is the warning I spoke of previously. It is a fact and important for people to understand. Do I think that Carrie will be 100% screwed or was that what I meant to imply? Not even close. Just a warning. I want her to succeed and genuinely wished her luck with the project.

You may have only asked her to email you for advice, but I’ll let the readers’ judge for themselves as to your intent. Your email to her was widely circulated as a confirmation of why you were asked to leave the project.

I only recall emailing you and jen about technical issues, so I'm not sure where that came from. I don't recall contacting carrie directly before this.

Suffice it to say, this matter was better left private.

Exactly, but it was not my decision to make it public.

Your own aggrandized claims would be the only key for someone to figure out the connection. However, you chose to make it public.

That doesn't fit the facts. Search for the phrase where Jen first attacks me, and Miva's own website comes up for a description of my session at their 2005 conference with my website following as the second listing. I know it is hard to believe Miva would have a so-called "expert" speak at not only their 05 conference but 04 and 03. I even hear there is a testomonial floating around raving about my informative and standing room only sessions, but that is probably faked I assume. This is trivial when most people in the miva merchant community would immediately know who she was referring to there. It isn't common in the miva merchant community to think up all the ways I could have used to fake all the written and video testimonials for over 7 years now especially when they meet clients and hear it straight from their mouths at the annual conference.

If you would like to continue to do so, I have no problem laying out why I agreed that you should be dismissed from the project, line by line.

I don't see how I have made an issue of being dismissed from the project. Wasn't an issue then or now.

If that is a path that you choose, then we can do this publicly. However, I recommend that you go back to Robert and ask him to remove this thread, nicely.

I will give you this bit of advice, though. In the future, you may want to start with the assumption that the other people that you are working with on a team have more experience and ability than you think.

I have only gone by the specifics that were told to me during the project. If you felt I have slighted you with the warning I gave to Carrie or anything else, I apologize. I'm looking forward to your session at the miva conference and have told people that is one to look for this year. For myself, I requested to speak on something different this year, email marketing, but that wasn't in the plan. I'm still going and will make it a point to tell people that your session in the specified timeslot is the one not to miss.