Leprechaun Repellent and Guaranteed SEO Companies – The Disturbing Link

[thejenn]

Full Text: http://www.searchengineguide.com/bur.../1205_sb1.html

A Snippet:

Guarantees have been around for at least as long as leprechauns have been hoarding breakfast cereal and starring in bad horror films. A good guarantee should not only appeal to the base emotion of a potential purchaser, but it should also afford some real protection that the purchase he or she is making will provide meaningful results.

[BKCB]

I have studied the SEO-SEM industry for a long time, but I am not in the business myself. So, I'm curious about one part of the article "Leprechaun Repellent and Guaranteed SEO Companies – The Disturbing Link"

I have heard of all of the guarantees in the article (which I like and agree with), but I never heard of the "Targeted Traffic" guarantee. Do many SEO's do this:
"If the firm offering this type of guaranteed SEO charges on a monthly basis, any month of the engagement where traffic for targeted phrases does not exceed the baseline should not be charged."

How is that "baseline" set, and is it easily agreed upon with the client?

I'm also wondering how many words (and how competitive) are in the "keyword strings" of these "targeted phrases" that enable the confidence to say:
"If your prospective firm is unwilling to guarantee that it will send increased traffic to your website from targeted phrases, every month, it may be time to look elsewhere."

Any input from anybody will be appreciated.

[mouse_man]

Originally Posted by BKCB

"If your prospective firm is unwilling to guarantee that it will send increased traffic to your website from targeted phrases, every month, it may be time to look elsewhere."

Any input from anybody will be appreciated.

Keywords and phrases are only a part of positioning you still must have a compelling reason for your website to be positioned with a high ranking. Relevant content to the keyword or phrase is still "King"....

I think some people believe that if they use a keyword or phrase it is automaticly picked up by the search engine.. not true. I own a search engine and sites that are submitted often have their keywords and phrase purged by us before we list them.. and some are dropped due to lack of relevant content.

There are many great opportunities on the Web to do your business, but there is a right way and a wrong way... it is up to you to choose.

When picking your SEO or SEM look at their current work that they have done for other clients plus their own site. That will help you in picking the right Company.

Only my opinion, Best of Luck to You

[Robert]

BKCB,

The Search Engine Strategies conference is going on this week so most of our regular SEOs are out of town attending the conference. Just wanted to let you know you'll likely get responses from them when they return.

[BKCB]

I agree that content is "King" (as Bill Gates said many years ago), but at the same time, content is partially made up of "targeted phrases".

This "Targeted Traffic" guarantee is based on how much traffic comes in on those "targeted phrases". So, if the overall content is not sufficient, the SEO Consultant gets paid less. Wouldn't that provide motivation for that SEO to do ALL that is necessary to insure increased income for himself?

"When picking your SEO or SEM look at their current work that they have done for other clients plus their own site. That will help you in picking the right Company." = Good Advice, but I'm going to play "devil's advocate" for a minute and quote Stoney deGeyter's article "Do You Have a Bad SEO Company, or Are You Just A Bad Client?" = http://www.searchengineguide.com/degeyter/005478.html

In it he says "One company came to us from one of the largest SEO firms after their one-year contract expired. We checked their rankings only to find sub-standard results. There were no penalization or sandbox issues, just lack of good performance." So, I don't think that this ineffective SEO Company would let you look at the web site they got "sub-standard results" on. No SEO Company would allow that to happen, if it did. So are there any real "acid tests", if most guarantees are "twisted" (according to Danny Sullivan).

At least the "Targeted Traffic" guarantee is some kind of "Pay For Performance". My concern with it, though, is that the client and the SEO may have a hard time agreeing on which competitive and non-competitive "targeted phrases" are included in the SEO compensation, and therefore "at what price fee" for each that reduces the monthly payments (or eliminates them completely?) when those "targeted phrases" go below the "baseline reading" level for that month. These factors could affect the amount of "meaningful results" the client gets.

PS = Thanks, Robert for the "heads-up" on SES Chicago. I should have realized that. I'm still new to "forum posting", so I appreciate the good communication.

[mouse_man]

Originally Posted by BKCB

"When picking your SEO or SEM look at their current work that they have done for other clients plus their own site. That will help you in picking the right Company." = Good Advice, but I'm going to play "devil's advocate" for a minute and quote Stoney deGeyter's article "Do You Have a Bad SEO Company, or Are You Just A Bad Client?" = http://www.searchengineguide.com/degeyter/005478.html

I have read the article you provided and it is interesting reading. He hits on some common problems.

Like: "Maybe it’s you. Maybe it’s them. Get the facts before you do anything."

This says it all.. get the facts before you do anything.

You may ask where you get the facts. This forum is an excellent start. The rest will be your personal experience as you go down the path learning just like everyone else. No one can give you all the answers only their personal experience. Now I prefer hearing someone personal experience, but I am cautious listening to someone tell me what "they heard"... big difference.

Stoney mentioned in his article clients disappointed in their sales... That is "not" the SEO's job. Just like it is not your investment brokers job to make you money.

Several sites that are submitted for inclusion to our search engine, and we find the site is not properly optimized for relevance. We drop them immediately, but some, because they do have good content, we may "cache" their site and make modifications on our end.. this only effects how the site is found in our search engine. We then send them a note and recommend finding a SEO company to help them. Many of the mistakes are very small, but they need to be corrected to properly interact with the spiders.

So many sites so little time, and limited space.

There is not enough resource time to correct everyone's site.. the SEO is a good investment, but it is not the SEO responsibility for the sales. That is your business.

These are only my opinions based on my limited experienced, and I am sure this forum has many others with much more to offer than me.

One more recommendation: I use a site http://www.Guru.com (Guru.com) for projects. I post my project and consider the proposals. Referrals, and examples of work are important to me.

Best Regards

Good Luck

[BKCB]

"You may ask where you get the facts. This forum is an excellent start. The rest will be your personal experience as you go down the path learning just like everyone else. No one can give you all the answers only their personal experience. Now I prefer hearing someone personal experience, but I am cautious listening to someone tell me what "they heard"... big difference."

I totally agree that this and other forums are a great place to start, but I've been "down the path of learning", and I don't want to repeat the same mistakes I made when I was younger. "Cause me to loose money once, shame on you; Cause me to lose money twice, shame on me."

How true it is that "no one can give you all the answers only their personal experience,..." Thank God, for shopping-comparison web sites, blogs, etc. that enable the possibility of honest disclosure as to their subjective experiences (getting personal referrals was always a "subjective matter" along with honesty). Otherwise, we would still be living in the limited communication-information age before the internet.

I have a lot of respect for Stoney deGeyter, and for Jim Hedger (I may not always agree with every point they make, but that doesn't stop me from respecting their overall openness, honesty, and ability to have empathy for the "other guy".

Here is a quote from one of Jim's articles ( http://www.searchengineguide.com/hedger/005847.html ) that has a quote from a SEO client's personal experience: "Dalen from Dallas TX wrote a long letter in response to the first article expressing issues he faced when trying to work with organic SEOs who were less expert than they claimed to be. Here is a part of his email, (printed with permission):

“We (the little guys) are faced with scores of so-called SEO "experts" who all claim to be able to get us there, but the truth is that too many of them are just hype and bluster and we have no way to determine who knows what they are doing and who does not. So we are faced with the daunting gamble of dumping money into what can only be at best a good guess. That can be economically unfeasible for most. I have wasted thousands on experts who almost destroyed my rankings because they only looked like they knew what they were doing, and would justify their lack of performance with the worn-out excuse that you can't make any promises in the SEO game, and that it always takes months to see results. By that time, they are gone with your money looking for the next victim.” - Frustrated but still hopeful, Dalen."

From the same article: "Another reader, Mike Bemis CEO of Voiceserv.net, wrote a short response to the second article (again, reprinted with permission).
“… I think you missed a point.
We are a young company and watch our pennies pretty carefully. We have been hustled by a couple SEO firms recently. Give me $6000,5,4,3...Just sign up with us today and we’ll do wonders for you. The pitch always sets off alarms.
In addition, I worry (and I suspect others do) that an SEO will successfully get my site blackballed and I’ll be worse off than ever.” There are great SEO's out there, but how is a prospective client to know for sure which one to pick?

At least with the "Targeted Phrases" guarantee (if informed client and SEO can agree on the specifics), there is some kind of "guarantee", I think?

"Stoney mentioned in his article clients disappointed in their sales... That is "not" the SEO's job. Just like it is not your investment brokers job to make you money"

I totally agree that it is not the job of the SEO about anything that happens after the online contact is made. Only the client can control the follow up of their offline sale, unless, of course, we are talking about online sales (e-commerce). Also, the investment broker is not held personally responsible for not providing a ROI, but the client has the option to find a new investment broker (SEO Agency turnover), and file a complaint with the proper regulatory authorities if the investment broker has broken any of the NASD rules = http://www.nasd.com/web/idcplg?IdcSe...AGE&nodeId=745

"There is not enough resource time to correct everyone's site.. the SEO is a good investment, but it is not the SEO responsibility for the sales. That is your business."

Again, I totally agree that "it is not the SEO's responsibility for the sales" unless the sales are made totally online without any human help. Then good SEO can help tremendously with conversions by setting up good content, navigaiton, and good "calls to action" along the e-commerce pathway.

mouse_man, I really appreciated your opinions, and I hope you forgive my "Devil's Advocate" perspective. My "excuse" is that it helps build the learning process if done agreeably.

Thanks for the personalized referral to Guru.com. I had heard of it before, but yours was the first objective testimonial I had heard about it. Someday ( in another more relevant thread), I would like to hear your personal experience RESULTS with that web site's service.

[mouse_man]

Originally Posted by BKCB

"mouse_man, I really appreciated your opinions, and I hope you forgive my "Devil's Advocate" perspective. My "excuse" is that it helps build the learning process if done agreeably.

I agree. As the little guy one of our best resources is others that share their opinions. Especially appreciated, by me, is when their opinion is based on personal experience.. not what "they heard".

Originally Posted by BKCB

Thanks for the personalized referral to Guru.com. I had heard of it before, but yours was the first objective testimonial I had heard about it. Someday ( in another more relevant thread), I would like to hear your personal experience RESULTS with that web site's service.

Finding someone to handle a project is difficult. Especially with the way some of the services design their websites. Several of the sites are written for you to send an email profiling your website, and most don't even have pricing but offer a free quote.

Two things stand out with these offers.

1. The are researching you site, and that will impact your bid. They are trying to deterime how much they think you can pay. (I use a domain that is small (low traffic), and the email address can be dropped easily if it starts picking up SPAM). ( bid@w3-email.com , and then block "bid" from being a valid email if SPAMMED)

2. They are harvesting your email address for SPAM..(they like to call it a special offer)

It may make for an interesting thread later.

Best Regards