Hello everyone.
We used a website development company ("wdc") for our website/store development. They designed the layout of our site, and manage the inventory and shopping cart. When a new item is added to stock, we submit the pic and the description to the wdc. They add the item to the shopping cart and also to the website. The wdc charges $5-7 per item for this service. If we add 100 items to inventory, the charge is $500-$700!

We'd like to start adding our own items to our website and do the shopping cart coding ourselves. The wdc tells us they don't allow this; that all changes are done thru them. They also will not give us the passwords to get into our website to see the html & shopping cart coding.

Is this a standard practice not allowing a website owner access to their own site? We are between a rock & a hard spot! Your comments how to regain control of our website are appreciated!

Hi old dog. Welcome to the forum! :)



Is this a standard practice not allowing a website owner access to their own site?


No, this is not standard practice. Are you tied into a contract with them?

This is not standard practice at all - at least not from the web development arena that I come from.

In fact, it should be the other way around. They should be providing you with ways to access and modify your web site. It's your site and store after all. The only reason for them to keep things under their control is so that they can charge you for every update.

I am interested in the same question that Robert asked - are you contractually obligated to stay with this company? If not, then I would investigate other means of developing your web site - either doing it yourselves, or finding another web development company that does not have such tight restrictions.

I would also be happy to take a look at your site and see how complicated it is - that will give me a better sense of how much work it will be to extract yourselves from your current wdc (if you can get around any contract issues).

Totally a bad business model I am afraid, for the very reason you state. Better they host the site, and charge you an agreen monthly amount of $$. I show my clients how to add stuff, and try to teach them the basics about writing the titles, descriptions etc. I then go in behind them and re-write their title/description copy to make sure it is search engine friendly. They pay me a set amount (low) on a month by month basis this covers them for the SEO work on each product, as well as email help with regard structuring if they have a new range etc, and like it that way.

What is happening here is diabloical. I know that $5 an item is not much, but it is pure exploitation. I would suggest that you look at moving the site. They HAVE to give you your database (unless their contract says otherwise) although I would imagine that the actual html code is theirs if they are renting space from them. It would be like trying to take the fixtures and fittings of an offline rented shop as well as the stock that you own.

Fixtures and fittings that came with the shop stay with the shop, but those you have added, (the database content) go with you if you rent a shop elsewhere.

Have a real good read of the contract, if there isn't one, then you can get yourstuff no problem by threatening to go legal for them witholding YOUR data, and telling them that you will also be including a claim for damages caused by their preventing the move by not releasing the data.

If they are able to add stuff then you should be able to do so as well. See what your contract specifically says. If is states that they own the site or that they must make changes, etc., then you may be out of luck.

However, if the contract specifically states that you are the owner of the web site, then by all means you have the right to do anything you want with it.

There still may be a problem in that they may have applications running that are not necessarily a part of your site and if you move it, you lose those applications.

I would advise hiring a programmer to at least look at it and see what is entailed in moving it away from these guys. If you have FTP access to the site, a programmer should be able to pop in there and see if everything can be downloaded and then uploaded to a new server. In the meantime, try to keep your relationship with your current 'wdc' as peaceful as possible so they don't sabotage your site.

Good luck with it.

hello everyone:

Thanks to all who responded to my thread. There is no written contract between us and the website developer.


Here's the question I asked them:
Will you email me the ftp address, log on and password for our website?
-----------------------------------
Here's what the WDC replied:

Could you please let us know your intentions. As we discussed in the past,
we maintain all sites we design.
---------------------------------------------
my reply: I am trying to understand the relationship to adding/deleting and item from the website as well as the coding necessary to add/delete the item from the shopping cart. We'd like to have more control of being able to manage our website to keep the costs more reasonable by adding/deleting items to the website ourselves. I can't justify the time necessary and the charges we incur since you manage the site, and also how the virtual (shopping) cart works without access to the FTP. According to the shopping cart software company all our inventory, with the coding, etc. is housed on your server.
--------------------------------

Here's what the WDC replied:

Our server does not hold any type of inventory or any other pertinent
information regarding Virtual Cart. Virtual Cart is a separate service that
provides the secure shopping cart system - they do not keep an inventory.
They calculate the order (shipping, tax, etc.) based on the coding that we
created. This is the same coding viewable through "view source" on your
internet browser. Your FTP information to our server will not provide you
with any additional information regarding the shopping Cart.
================================================== =


I have contacted a programmer to assist with gaining control of our website. I've looked at shopsite.com as the platform for maintaining the site. I know the WDC will not release the coding for the items on our website. Even though we paid the WDC for creation of this coding, they claim they are the owner of the coding. Is it possible for me to cut & paste the coding on our site by viewing the properties of each item?

Not necessarily if you do not have FTP access. The code that you see while viewing a page in a browser may have been assembled on the server and as such contains elements in the raw files that you do not see once the page is assembled. Maybe your programmer that you hired will be able to give you more specifics.

It also sounds like they are using a third party shopping cart. You may be able to keep using this is you can establish a relationship with that vendor.

Hope that your programmer can help you out.

Without FTP access it can be hard to determine how much "coding" they did. If the pages use JavaScript and the code is linked to the html file, then you need to be able to see the contents of the linked code to know what's going on.

If the pages are delivered using some server-side mechanism (jsp, asp) - although based on their description it does not sound like they are - then you really need access to the source code to see how the pages are being assembled.

And this could be the virtual cart they are referring to: Virtal Cart (http://www.vcart.com/)

<<Thanks to all who responded to my thread. There is no written contract between us and the website developer. >>

The cosmic issue here is whether can you ever become comfortable with this guy? And the short answer is "No."

Whenever you get involved with someone who is making a business out of chisleing every detail to his advantage rather than at least a mutally beneficial arrangement, he will always drop to a lower level to keep you trapped in his fold. Thus, it always gets more painful, not less.

The best option is to get out as soon as possible-now-and start over again with someone else. Yes, you'll suffer some immediate loss, but nothing like what you'll suffer over time by hanging in. With a new start, you can get moving again, and not have to worry every second how this current guy is going to screw you again. What they are really expert at is calibrating what they think you'll put up with to avoid short term pain, and get for something that is just short of that. And it goes on and on and on.

Oh, heck, I've used VirtualCart several times: http://vcart.com
You pay a yearly (or 3, 6 or 9 month) fee of about $240 with a free 30-day trial; there is NO database, and all the shopping cart data for the items is coded into your web pages. VCart has a login area where you put your tax, shipping, credit card third party gateway (e.g., Authorize.net), preferences for the "look" of the shopping cart pages, etc. and vCart takes care of the calculations.

Get yourself something like WebStripper and copy your entire site to your hard drive. Then either sign up with vCart (since the pages are already coded for it) or get a different shopping cart that resides on your server.
http://www.webstripper.net/

Of course, in either case, if you're going to do updates yourself, you'll have to learn something about it. But, like everyone else, you'll live through the experience. <grin>

I hate when developers do this kind of thing to clients. Mind you, I don't do anything for $7 (and I'm assuming that with each item, they have to code the new page or item, perhaps enhance the photo image, and upload), but if clients want to go, or to do things themselves, it surely isn't worth arguing over.

I don't know where you are, but here in California if you pay someone to build something for you, you generally own the something.

The very last line on my agreement states ' copyright and ownership of all work created under this agreement (unless stated otherwise above) shall pass to the client upon receipt of cleared funds'. (I say cleared funds as I had someone write a check, bounce it, but won his case as in the opinion of the judge, I had marked the invoice as 'paid' by signing it. :-(

Everyone knows where they stand this way, if they don't pa=y, then it is all mine, if they do, it is theirs.

Welcome to the forum, Diane! :D

OOps, did I forget to welcome DianeV :( sorry

Hiya Diane :)

Hiya, all. Nice to be welcomed.

Hi,
I have my own web design company and have designed several shopping cart projects.
For all the projects the code is the authority of my client. After the project is completed we deliver all the source code to our clients. Its really pathetic that your WDC is not giving you your right.
Also, we always provide a backend admin module through which the owner can have full control of the site.
For e.g. see this site I have developed www. leathermall.biz
the entire site / products / inventory is now managed by my client.
We have developed a very user friendly admin module through which my client can edit, delete and add products, images, product description, view user details, view all orders etc etc..

Let me know if you need any help from me..Cheers
Deepak

I hope you have been able to get this situation resolved. It is terrible business practise and I'm sorry you have had to go through this!

Best Wishes,

Teresa

Am I missing something here? The basic question is do you own the URL. If you do, then it is not a big thing to have a new web hosting company mirror your site and transfer the URL to them - as technical people, not as administrators or owners. You've paid for the code development, so you own your shopping cart. I suspect that your current guy is taking advantage because he thinks he can. A sharp lawyer's letter reminding him of his contractual obligations should take care of getting the code transferred to a new host. This should not be that big a deal.

As a possible solution to your problem, if you can get access to your pages, you might want to consider using a company that allows you to maintain your own site. A good one comes pre packaged with templeates, have the ability to upload html code from an existing site, has shopping cart and online merchant account plus more. And it is easy to use.
The advantage is you would not be hostage when something like this occurs.
I do not know the size of your business, but I can certainly point you in the right direction.

Good luck

id be p*ssed! lol ... see if you can't have someone else design you something nice on the side and then have your domain redirected to new site.. where YOU have total control over your product DB.. tell the other guys where they can shove their 7 bucks!

I had a kid build my cart for 600 bucks 3 years ago.. i still use it to this day....

whats your website btw.. or did i miss it?

A great way to get away from this is to have WCD create categories for your items. Then they can link it to an ebay store or a store that you create yourself.

Example:

A visitor goes to your website, then they go the teddy bear section of your website. They can choose from large teddy bears, medium sized teddy bears, and small teddy bears. They click the link on your website and are hyperlinked to your ebay store or separate pages that you run yourself.

This is just an idea … that way you can keep your site without having to start over AND have control of the products and services. If they won’t do this, I would get rid of the company and find another one who is more agreeable. No sense wasting anymore money if you aren’t going to get what you want.

[END]

With our company, if you want to add your own pages and have them linked to your website, we do not charge for that.

What is your website address ? What is the website address of your website designer ?

Point and Click Website Development LLC

Hello everyone.
We used a website development company ("wdc") for our website/store development. They designed the layout of our site, and manage the inventory and shopping cart. When a new item is added to stock, we submit the pic and the description to the wdc. They add the item to the shopping cart and also to the website. The wdc charges $5-7 per item for this service. If we add 100 items to inventory, the charge is $500-$700!

We'd like to start adding our own items to our website and do the shopping cart coding ourselves. The wdc tells us they don't allow this; that all changes are done thru them. They also will not give us the passwords to get into our website to see the html & shopping cart coding.

Is this a standard practice not allowing a website owner access to their own site? We are between a rock & a hard spot! Your comments how to regain control of our website are appreciated!


Wow that is the worst rip off scam I ever heard of. I feel your pain. I highly recomend doing business with yahoo.com or sitebuildit.com
Both are very good but work a little differently.