http://www.infoconomy.com/pages/news-and-gossip/group104047.adp


Software giant Microsoft, in an apparent change in its previous policy, has announced that it will release a new version of its Internet browser separately from an updated version of its operating system.

Microsoft chairman Bill Gates told delegates at the RSA Security conference in San Francisco that it would make trial version of its Internet Explorer 7 (IE7) available this summer.

The move highlights the growing concern within Microsoft over the number of users that have ditched its browser in favour of others regarded as more secure and with better features. Microsoft has seen its market share eroded over the last 12 months, dropping to below 90%
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http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=6083

Mozilla Firefox has hit the 25 million download mark. By the end of yesterday, 99 days after the release of Firefox 1.0, the browser had been downloaded 25,105,560 times. In the Mozilla Foundation press release about the 25 million milestone,

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http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=6077

Now, ASK Jeeves will get into the act

Good question. The problem is, people don't know what their missing until they see it for themselves.

Here is a nice list that shows the difference in features:

101 things that the Mozilla browser can do that IE cannot (http://%3Cbr%20/%3E%0A%3Ca%20href=%22http://www.xulplanet.com/ndeakin/arts/reasons.html)

I'd say it really depends on how Firefox modifies its marketing.

When talking with "normal" people (not webnuts) who are familiar with or even use Firefox, I had taken to asking what it is about that browser that they like. I also ask what makes it different from IE, for them.

The things they like about FF, in approximate order of popularity are:
1) Fast rendering
2) Good looking graphics
3) Tabbed browsing ... and then it tails off into mostly ums and ers.

What makes FF different for those folks?
1) They believe they are not as likely to get virii/worms/etc
2) Tabbed browsing
3) Not a product from MS
4) ums and ers

As far as I can tell, it comes down to tabbed browsing for most "normal" people. If that trend continues, then FF will be in trouble with the release of IE7 ... because it has tabbed browsing.

FF needs to pump up the volume on what REALLY makes their browser different, starting with security interests and moving through efficiency, rendering speed, extensions, the search box feature and search features within the pages, integration with the Thunderbird suite, news and RSS support, and onward. They also need to pump up the marketing for Thunderbird, or else they'll be left with a stand-alone browser ... standing alone ... standing regally ... but alone.

They need to remember that IE7 will already be the default when folks buy the newer systems (apparently just WinXP, for now), and that the future of FF relies on new users opting to download and install FF, as they did the other browsers before them. FF is enjoying a groundswell of Mac-like devotees in this lengthy time between major product releases from MS, but they should not confuse that with success on an active battlefield.

Set up the triage ... it's gonna be a long night. :)

As a webdesigner, I don't care which is the winner. I personally use Firefox for a number of reasons not the least of which is the famed tabbed browsing (Opera has had that for a while) the highest of which is the expansive number of extensions ranging from Chris Pederick's Developer Toolbar (http://www.chrispederick.com/work/firefox/webdeveloper/) or the Sage RSS Browser Extension (http://sage.mozdev.org/).

One issue of concern/criticism in the web development industry is standards compliance. While there are no official standards, the W3C (World Wide Web Consortium), the group that develops and makes recommendation on the usage and application of a number of internet languages including (X)HTML and CSS (Cascading Style Sheets) does have specifications. Firefox and all of the Mozilla Browsers including, Safari, Netscape 7 and Mozilla heed most of these specifications in the way in which pages are rendered.

Microsoft's insistance on remaining outside of the following of many of the W3C specifications has significant financial impact. As many webdesigners will tell you, they spend inordinate amounts of time trying to make pages look and function identically accross many browsers. At this time most of the time is spent "fixing" pages to work in IE. For those web-developers who use IE for their development then have to "adjust" (read correct) their pages to work in other browsers. This accounts for significant development time and frustration.

There is currently a movement in the web development industry toward global standards i.e., The Web Standards Project (http://www.webstandards.org). This movement wishes to reduce development time, increase compatibility and increase accessability for users. I, for one, would rather spend time building pages once and deploy them without the unending browser checks and calls for screen captures etc.

I don't think that FF will ever win and I don't think it even matters unless Microsoft continues to promote faulty/proprietary tags and buggy/sloppy page rendering as a "feature". According to this Microsoft IE Blog Article (http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/03/09/391362.aspx), things are happening, but reports in the webdeveloper community have suggested that MS employees do not have access to the W3C site from within the MS offices. So who knows.

Bottom line: Use whatever browser you want, there are lots. As web standards take hold and accessibility laws go global the browser preference will be little more than that - a preference.

Warm regards,

Jay Gilmore

PS: The Mozilla Organization should promote the hell out of Thunderbird as it has excellent, native spam protection and RSS feed capability. It is not perfect, but it is better than OE.

I'll stick with FF until I have a reason to go back to IE. With IE going tabbed browsing that leaves only the extentions that make a difference to me. If IE gives me the features that I use in FF then I may switch back just for convenience of having all MS integration.

Mozilla/Firefox is the better choice. :angel:

Even I know my friends who know nothing other than 'start' button and 'Internet Explorer' and 'messengers' are switching to Firefox.

It is highly customizable, have a lot of features, add-ons, skins[themes], and much more.
I use del.icio.us-button, adblock, and other bookmark helpers and much more in addition to a 'moox' build of Firefox. Thses little little things make me a FF fan.
It is a pleasurable experience to use it when we know that so many people are working behind it, building brick by brick on it. I hate IE, it realy sucks. It attracts so many installers, is very vulnerable and lacks functions.
I tried IE 7 beta-in someone else's system, It gave me a complete reformat when I installed the cracked version in my system- and I found nothing new. Ofcourse, tabbed browsing is there. But it opera had that ages ago. Did that succeed?
We love Firefox. Once you start using it-at a full fledged rate-try visiting the extensions, seachlets and plugins sites-you too will get addicted to it.
Yes, it is a passion. We love Firefox. :thumbsup:

Robert, thanx for that link. :) Lets spread firefox

Hmmm ...

The devil I know or ... the other devil I know?

Since Firefox is now the more mature implementation, one can expect fewer bugs and better performance from that browser.

Since MSIE7 is only a preview of what may end up in their Vista release, it's purely speculation regarding what problems/solutions it may or may not contain. Since Vista will not be compatible with many existing programs (according to MS), it's likely to take a very long time to be widely adopted. New hardware required, new programs, the learning curve ...

Since MS has traditionally incorporated features (sic) in its browsers that interact deeply with the Windows OS, it might be beneficial for those who use Windows (Vista) exclusively or for those developers whose audience only uses Windows (Vista).

Hmmm ...

I can't think of anyone developing for the web who fits that last description.

Since MS has a history of straying outside of the specifications (chuckle), one can assume the new browser will do things just differently enough to require massive reworking of existing applications.

Our company always waits at least until the second round of bug "fixes" from MS to deploy any of their technology to minimize the disruptions caused by any new MS release and its problems. We won't be retrofitting our company until at least SP2 for Vista ... so that puts us into MSIE7 in around ... oh ... say ... 2010.

Firefox for a long time to come. ;)

How many members of these forums have an MSDN subscription and therefore have access to the beta (alpha?) release of MSIE7, at this point?

<edit>
The poll is a bit skewed ("will win become more popular"). Maybe it should be just "most popular" on a "popularity" level. There is simply no doubt that upon its release, MSIE7 will instantly have greater market share than FF. But which browser will win the most mind-share? Which will win the hearts of its users?

Firefox will definitely become "more popular" regardless of what MS does, because they have nowhere to go but "more". MSIE faces a much greater challenge in becoming "more" of anything, as they are already nearing saturation levels on many fronts. Besides, when was the last time you heard anyone swearing fealty to their MS browser against all others?
</edit>

I'm quite new to FF, but I love it. The only thing I miss is the google toolbar to check pageranks. I found a freebie alternative to the google toolbar, but it doesn't have the page rank info.

Hey, you can have both browsers running at once! (I'm trying it now; it works). :)

You're in luck!

Do this search at Mozilla.org for PageRank "extensions" to Firefox (https://addons.mozilla.org/quicksearch.php?q=pagerank&section=E) Download the "Google PageRank Status" at least, and might as well add "SEOpen" as well. It's a great SEO competitive tool. Because I'm a glutton, I also installed and use regularly the "SearchStatus"
(https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=321) extension, which shows Alexa, PageRank and more.

You might find the "IE View" (https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=35) extension to be useful, too. With a right-click, you can open the current page in Internet Explorer, if you must.

I also recommend the "infoRSS" (https://addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=361) newsfeed/podcast reader. Definitely explore the Extensions section of the Mozilla site. Click on the little circle-of-dots in the upper-right corner of the browser to get there easily.

Thanks for the info (mumble)script! I'm gonna be busy (again!). :)

Since you're keen on FF, I have one tiny problem with it - the live update says, 'Yes, 1 critical update needed.' I press the 'GO' button, it connects, and nothing happens.
Any chance their server can't cope? :confused:

The updates that trigger the little exclamation point icon can be for any of a number of pieces of FF, including extensions, plugins or the browser itself. While there have been reports of spotty failures to perform a browser update over the months, typical update failures are the result of problems with the way extension or plugin updates are prepared.

If you are worried about your browser being "unpatched" (although if you have a version from within the past month or so, it's up to date), you can go to the download page (http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox) manually and it will inform you if there is a browser update for you to install.

Otherwise updates are usually non-critical, and the update programming is frequently repaired by the time the next update notification is triggered.

Thanks, Yes, there is a critical update needed, but nothing downloads.

I'll go with plan B: uninstall FF and download the latest version. Thanks again.
Pete :)

Sorry 'bout that. ;)

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